En konversation om flykt: Andrii and Mariia

00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:07,300
[inaudible backgr. talk]

2
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Well, two of your questions?

3
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First two questions of mine, then yours.

4
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[inaudible backgr. talk]

5
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Where are your questions [inaudible]?

6
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[inaudible backgr. talk]

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Gorgeous.

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[inaudible backgr. talk]

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Ah, may I?

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Do you remember how we met?

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Sure. I'll never forget it.

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You changed my life.

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I was working in a monastery, and a group
of artists came to us to paint the monastery.

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I was in charge of the construction site
and we were going by each other for nine months.

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One day, the priest suggested making
the stonework of the floor more sophisticated

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and decorate it with mosaics.

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And that was the moment when you came along.

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This was our first co-project.

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[inaudible backgr. talk]

20
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Do you remember how we met?

21
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Sure. It's impossible to remember... to forget that.

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I'll remember it for a lifetime.

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I was restoring the monastery, and some
artists came to us to paint the walls.

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And you were one of them. Passing by for nine
months, you didn't notice me, I didn't see you.

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And one day the priest suggested

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making the stonework of the floor
more sophisticated and add mosaics to it.

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That was the moment when you came along.

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And we did this project together.

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Yes.

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The first project we did together.

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Do you remember how you felt
when we first met?

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Of course. Unforgettable.

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We went by van to pick out
the stones for those mosaics,

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you sat down next to me, and,
by some divine providence, I gave you my hand,

35
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and you gave me yours.

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And I realized it was love.

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What is your happiest memory
of our life together?

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In Ukraine?

39
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In Ukraine.

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Well, this is, of course, our acquaintance
you've just told me about,

41
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the births of our four children,
Asya and the boys.

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Every day it was...
every time it was like a miracle.

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Two of them were born in Kyiv,
two in Kharkiv.

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And now, of course, I recall
a lot of those things,

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that we didn't appreciate when we were there.

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I think of our house, our apartment
in the center of Kharkiv.

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Thank God it's intact now,
but it's empty, there's no one there.

48
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There's our stuff lying there
the way we left it, the beds spread out,

49
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when we ran away from home
in the morning of the 24th.

50
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Our garden, the place where our parents lived...

51
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now this territory is under occupation.

52
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I'm very... those memories,
they come whether I wake or sleep.

53
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And do you remember how you felt

54
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when we were running our business together?

55
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Yeah, that was great, that was...
as soon as we met,

56
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we started figuring out
what we could do together,

57
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how we can combine our talents.

58
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You, as an inventor, carpenter, constructor,

59
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and I, as an artist, a designer.

60
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What we could do together,
we had all kinds of ideas.

61
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And for five years we had our joint project,

62
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our children's furniture design studio.

63
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We started making furniture
for our own children,

64
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and then for other children in Ukraine.

65
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And we have a lot of clients who trusted us

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to furnish their kids' rooms.

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It was a very interesting project,

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and I hope that someway we can
keep it going, bring it back to life.

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Because, of course, it all ended
when the war started.

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All – the studio was left in Kharkiv,
all the equipment.

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We left, and, of course,
we didn't take anything with us.

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But I hope we have some perspective,

73
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But, most important, we have ourselves
with our mutual understanding and skills.

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And we'll definitely do something together,
like we always do.

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Names.

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So, my question, right?

77
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Do you remember when we decided
to get out of the country, to leave Ukraine?

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Names.

79
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[OOV] Wait.

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"How did you choo…"

81
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[OOV] A few more questions.

82
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Yeah, now, wait a moment.

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"Remember how we chose
the kids' names?"

84
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[OOV] Yes, first of all, kids in the beginning.

85
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Ah, OK.

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[OOV] Then they added...
about leaving Ukraine.

87
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They know that men are not allowed to go out...

88
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Yeah, and explain.

89
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[OOV] Yes, say why your husband managed to leave.

90
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OK.

91
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[OOV] Yes.

92
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"When did we decide
to leave Ukraine and how..."

93
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[OOV] And in this question, yes.

94
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Yep.

95
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[OOV] Tell us how you managed to...

96
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I will, yes, I will.

97
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[OOV] And then let's get back
to the kids.

98
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Okay, yes, I missed it then.
Now, I can't figure out where it is.

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"Do you remember how we chose
the kids' names?"

100
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Remember how we chose names for our kids?

101
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Of course. Every one of them,
as if it were today.

102
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Asya was the first, and we
unanimously decided to name her after her grandma,

103
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your grandmother Asya,
who passed away so suddenly.

104
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Unfortunately, I never got to meet her.

105
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I remember when we decided to name Petro Petro.

106
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He was born on the holiday.

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Because he was born
on St Peter and Paul's Day.

108
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And I remember it was so hard to choose
whether we would name him Petro or Pavlo.

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We felt a bit uncomfortable with St Peter
because we decided to name him Pavlo.

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With St Paul.

111
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With St Paul because
we decided to name him Petro.

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Still, it was Petro.

113
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I remember we decided to name
our second son Yuri, after my dad,

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who also passed away before his time,
and you never got to meet him.

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And I remember the joy we had

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exactly five years after Petro was born,

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when our third boy was born
on the same day, on the same holiday,

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and there was no longer
any doubt as to his name.

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There was no doubt.

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And we named him Pavlo
after this great saint.

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This is our family's little story.
A little family miracle.

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Do you remember how...
when we decided to leave Ukraine?

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And how worried were we about
which of us would go and who would stay?

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Yes, I do remember.

125
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It was not known until the end
whether I could leave Ukraine,

126
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being a father of four children.

127
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I wasn't sure if I could leave
the country legally.

128
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But it was how you felt
that decided everything.

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Those panic attacks that you
and our eldest daughter started to have.

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That constant terror, constant fear that
something might happen to the children.

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And that was probably the moment when
we decided to leave the country after all.

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We were going, not knowing if you could go,
or you'd come back and we'd go ourselves.

133
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I was really scared because I cannot drive,

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you were driving, and thank God we did it.

135
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Yes, that was the question
until the last moment,

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right up to the moment we crossed the border.

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And when we were crossing it, they took
my certificate of a father with many children,

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and they said, "You can leave,"
and I remember how happy you were,

139
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that I could go on with you.

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I think our main task was to save our children,

141
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to preserve their lives, health,
and mental health,

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because the situation in Ukraine
was very destructive.

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But I was ready to return to Kharkiv, even
if they wouldn't let me out, you know it.

144
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It's good to have you with us.

145
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There, I… [inaudible]

146
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How hard was it? How hard was it
for you to decide to leave Ukraine?

147
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Well... First we all thought we could
wait it out,

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that it would end quickly,
or it wouldn't be so scary,

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that, as the Russian government said,
civilians would not suffer.

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But this was not the case, because
Kharkiv is very close to the border,

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it was more damaged in the early stage
than the other places.

152
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And I felt scared waking the kids up
every time,

153
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so that they would go to the basement,/Nto the shelter several times a night.

154
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That was the most horrifying thing
I've ever experienced.

155
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So the first chance we got,
when we realized we had to leave,

156
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It was scary, but it was the right decision,
and I didn't doubt it for a minute.

157
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It was probably easy to leave,
but very sad and scary.

158
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I keep losing track of where we are.

159
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"How did you feel when we left Ukraine?"

160
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Yeah. And here's another one.
"What do you remember from your trip?"

161
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Go ahead.

162
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[OOV] You've missed one.

163
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"How were you feeling when...?"

164
00:13:46,275 --> 00:13:47,020
Uh-huh.

165
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How did you feel when we left Ukraine?

166
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,380
Oh, that was a strange feeling.

167
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Bitterness, on the one hand,
and great joy on the other,

168
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that our children will finally
feel a little safer.

169
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:10,860
That you won't have
those creepy fears anymore.

170
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Mixed feelings.

171
00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:17,780
I was very happy that we managed
to leave in two cars

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with our parents and even with our dog,
our Labrador Rosie.

173
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:23,780
Yes.

174
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Because the animals also suffered
a lot in this situation.

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Many people couldn't take
their animals.

176
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And those dogs tied up
next to the train station,

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that people couldn't take with them
on the train, they were just not allowed.

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That was terrible.

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Do you remember our trip to Bulgaria?
It took us five days to get there.

180
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:56,100
Yes, it was awful,
especially the last two days.

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A 12-hour queue at the border.

182
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22.

183
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22? I remember that I was going
with my brain on autopilot

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I slept for five minutes, woke up,
and drove another 10 meters,

185
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I fell asleep again, woke up again,
and so on ad infinitum.

186
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The last kilometers were
especially difficult for me,

187
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When we had already crossed the border
with Bulgaria, we crossed Romania...

188
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,540
We crossed the border into Bulgaria,
and a snowstorm started.

189
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:32,660
Remember that snowstorm
when we almost got lost in the snow?

190
00:15:32,795 --> 00:15:33,980
Snowfall. Yes.

191
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And we couldn't afford to stop.

192
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It was nighttime, we were in the Bulgarian
mountains, and that snow all around,

193
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And we are breaking through, like...
per aspera.

194
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And that was probably
the brightest moment I remember.

195
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Asya, our eldest daughter,
had a fever of 39 and was sick,

196
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,100
because it's five days on the road,
and it's cold and...

197
00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:09,540
It was a hard, hard ordeal.

198
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,780
I prayed that our old car, the minibus,
would not break up and drive us there.

199
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The Lord is merciful – we did it.

200
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,260
It did it.

201
00:16:19,395 --> 00:16:20,740
Yes, we did it.

202
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:29,980
Can I have some water? [inaudible]

203
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:42,640
[inaudible backgr. talk]

204
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,180
How did you feel when we got to the UK?

205
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,820
I guess it was the first time I felt it,

206
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:17,780
that feeling of home in those two months.

207
00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,980
I don't know why – because
in Bulgaria I was feeling

208
00:17:24,120 --> 00:17:28,740
that we are at a crossroads,
that our journey is not over yet.

209
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,340
And when we finally got our visas,

210
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,660
got on the plane, flew in, and got off,

211
00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,020
met our wonderful family,
our sponsor Clara –

212
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,300
amazing woman, amazing family she has, –

213
00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,780
I felt a kind of relief.

214
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:59,700
It felt like, I don't know why,
that we were home.

215
00:17:59,840 --> 00:18:03,660
Though it's a temporary home,
we'll be fine here.

216
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,260
When did you feel most welcome
in the UK?

217
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:19,180
Oh, I can't stop feeling it every day.

218
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:25,860
But probably the first thing was
when we got to our apartment

219
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:31,620
that became ours for those six months.
We stepped in – everything was thought out...

220
00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:33,820
With so much love.

221
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:35,620
With so much love, yes.

222
00:18:35,760 --> 00:18:39,420
Toothbrushes prepared
for us and our children,

223
00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:42,820
beds laid out, lots of toys.

224
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:48,500
Yura, who couldn't sleep until 2 a.m.
and came to us and...

225
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:49,980
...was playing Lego.

226
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,060
And it all gave a sense of home, yes.

227
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,460
and gratitude for all the hospitality
we have received.

228
00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:03,580
Smiling people in the street
still amaze me.

229
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,420
And I feel like I'm at home

230
00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,900
and it's just some relative of mine
walking and smiling at me.

231
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:14,180
I feel this hospitality every day.

232
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,660
A lot of support from strangers.

233
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:27,380
And they want to hear our story
and lend a helping hand somehow.

234
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,460
It's just amazing. I feel it, too.

235
00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:36,340
Do you remember that lady
we met next to St. Andrew's Church?

236
00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:41,860
Who just started talking to us
about the situation in Ukraine and

237
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,900
that we and all four of our children
had to run away, started crying?

238
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:50,060
And it's amazing how much these people...

239
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:53,460
What a big heart they have.

240
00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,860
Yes, a big heart to perceive it that way.

241
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,980
Yes, I am very grateful to the UK
for sheltering us...

242
00:20:01,120 --> 00:20:04,820
for giving us a true home.

243
00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:07,100
Thank you.

244
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:20,940
Masha, please tell me about your paintings
related to the war in Ukraine.

245
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,140
Well, yes, all my works
painted before the war,

246
00:20:28,280 --> 00:20:31,660
They were left in my art studio in Kharkiv.

247
00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:37,940
And now that this situation started,

248
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:41,700
I can't watch movies or listen to music.

249
00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:46,100
I'm just beginning to see
some normalcy in my life.

250
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,700
And I also can't draw something abstract.

251
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:57,780
A beautiful landscape or
some kind of sketch, just for fun.

252
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,060
I really wanted to express
the storm of emotions,

253
00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,460
so many feelings,
more than ever in my life.

254
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:11,820
In fact, I couldn't draw for a month.

255
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:18,780
But one day I saw a picture of a woman,
a mother, all covered with wounds.

256
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,300
She had 25 small fragment wounds.

257
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:29,780
She was at home breastfeeding
her two-month-old daughter.

258
00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:35,020
at the moment when a shell
or a fragment hit their apartment.

259
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,220
And she covered her child with herself.

260
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:44,540
The baby was unharmed, without a scratch,
and she was, like, very...

261
00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:48,180
Cut all over.

262
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:53,660
Hurt. Wounded, yes,
and she got operated afterwards.

263
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:57,060
And when I saw a picture of her,
the way she was sitting,

264
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,740
holding her baby, she reminded me
of the Virgin Mother.

265
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:08,060
There was so much grief, love, triumph,
so many different feelings in her eyes.

266
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,460
And that's when I got able to paint
and painted her portrait.

267
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:18,260
Well, the second portrait was of Asya,
our 14-year-old daughter,

268
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,900
who also perceived all these events
very intensely.

269
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,380
We live in the eastern region, in Kharkiv,

270
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,820
where Russian is often spoken historically,

271
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,780
and you and I speak Russian
in our family, too.

272
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:43,980
But our children already know more,
it's easier for them to be bilingual.

273
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:49,180
And now Asya wants to...
she switched to Ukrainian language

274
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,740
and studies the history of Ukraine.

275
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:58,540
She has such a great inspiration,
such patriotism born in her.

276
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,100
Well, not just her – all of us, of course.

277
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:06,700
But she, at her age, is the most receptive.

278
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,860
So I drew a portrait of her
in modern clothes, but on her arms,

279
00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:19,100
right there, where there is usually a pattern
on the Ukrainian embroidered shirt

280
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,820
she has tattoos just like an embroidery.

281
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:29,460
I had the feeling that, first off,
she grew up really fast,

282
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,820
and secondly, she somehow...

283
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:41,420
the whole situation hurt her deeply.

284
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:48,540
But I think she's all right and the feelings
she's having right now,

285
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,100
they bring up a human in her.

286
00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:01,460
[inaudible backgr. talk]

287
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:02,660
Yes?

288
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:03,820
Okay.
Me again.

289
00:24:04,060 --> 00:24:06,820
You again. Now, wait, let me take breath.

290
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,740
What are your hopes for our family's future?

291
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:29,780
It's a hard question because
we weren't preparing for war,

292
00:24:29,915 --> 00:24:33,700
And this situation, it got us off the rails.

293
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,220
When we had plans, right?

294
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:38,700
Asya wanted to go to a theater university,

295
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,660
the boys attended their sports clubs,

296
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,420
we were working in our studio,
everything was clear.

297
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:52,420
Now everything is unclear.
Sometimes I feel like I'm in a movie.

298
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,460
I mean, all of a sudden, I'm in London now.

299
00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,580
And I look at myself a little bit from the outside.

300
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:03,740
It's hard for me to imagine
what's going to happen next.

301
00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:07,340
Of course, all of us are hoping
that the war will be over.

302
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:12,540
We wait for it, every day we wait
for this madness to stop.

303
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,660
I guess we can't go back right away.

304
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:23,660
Because it would be very difficult
to come back on the same day.

305
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:29,260
But we hope, we look forward to it,
and we want to come back to our country.

306
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,940
It's important to me. But I've decided
that I'm going to live for today.

307
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,740
We're in the UK now, and we're fine here.

308
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:42,300
And while part of our heart, of our soul
is with our friends and loved ones,

309
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:47,660
that are in Ukraine, it's impossible
to live as if everything is fine.

310
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:54,180
But for the sake of our children and
for the future that will come anyway,

311
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,340
we are safe – that's the main thing.

312
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:01,380
I think everything will be fine. We carry on.
We're together, that’s the most important.

313
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,740
We can raise children and teach them.

314
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:13,020
I want them to learn to be as polite
and kind as the English.

315
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:21,020
Because we're in this environment
that's so... so... awesome.

316
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:23,020
Real gentlemen.

317
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,980
Yes. That's the main thing.

318
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:31,820
So your question again, right?

319
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:32,660
Yes.

320
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,620
The subject of this year's
International Refugee Day is:

321
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:43,300
refugees bring more
than they can take with them.

322
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,300
What do you think it means?

323
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:52,380
Well, I think that...

324
00:26:53,360 --> 00:26:59,180
I'll tell you as an artist: we can have some
kind of cultural exchange, it's interesting.

325
00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:04,460
I want our people, Ukrainians,
to be recognized

326
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:11,480
as a truly free-spirited and strong nation.

327
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:13,820
That's what we are.

328
00:27:16,109 --> 00:27:20,120
And I'm very glad that the whole world
stands with us

329
00:27:20,732 --> 00:27:22,940
and supports us.

330
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,460
But we want to show our best side
so that our compatriots,

331
00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:33,620
could bring really good things to the table.

332
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,540
Because we have interesting culture.

333
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,300
On the artistic aspect, there are
a lot of amazing artists.

334
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:48,540
I want to have a cultural exchange

335
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,220
with English artists, to see what they do.

336
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,780
So you think this is exactly
what the refugees bring

337
00:27:57,915 --> 00:27:59,860
to the countries they arrive in?

338
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,380
I hope they do more good than bad.

339
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,860
Well, people are different.
But I think we can...

340
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,700
I can't say anything right now,
there's a lot of thoughts.

341
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:25,620
I think that's it for this question.
I wanted to tell more, but...

342
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:27,580
[inaudible backgr. talk]

343
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:29,900
[OOV] Start answering this question anew
if you like.

344
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,940
If not, you can leave it as it is.

345
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,540
It's an important question, I understand.

346
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:42,460
[inaudible backgr. talk]

347
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,020
[OOV] Would you like to try again?

348
00:29:01,155 --> 00:29:02,620
Maybe you have something to say?

349
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:04,260
[OOV] You answered perfectly.

350
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:08,140
Really? All right, yeah. I'm sorry,
I had more on my mind.

351
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:10,140
I can' t build up a thought right now.

352
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,500
I think it's fine.

353
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:12,820
Was that the last one?

354
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:13,820
Yes.

355
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:20,880
[inaudible backgr. talk]

356
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:40,940
Bravo.

357
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:42,100
Thank you.

358
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:49,140
[OOV] Thank you. As I understood it...
[inaudible] the audience...

359
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:51,340
I was the only one watching.

360
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,940
I am so grateful to you for this, I have
no words. I've never met you in person...

361
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:57,300
[inaudible]